Curse

Chev of Hardass · Aug 16, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

The system, as it is, makes PvE characters pretty useless for PvP.

Currently if you bring up a W/Mo in PvE the character is strong, tank-ish and awesome for PvE. However, for PvP a W/Ele, W/Mes, W/N, or W/R are far more powerful. If you collect every skill for two professions, grinding skill points for you specific builds for other secondary professions is painful, at best.

I suggest a PvP “Ready Room” for PvE characters. In this room several things would be available, but limited to PvP only use:

1) Choose secondary profession, only secondary professions that you have done the *.*'s Path quests for are available.
2) Choose skills. All unlocked skills are available.
3) Choose weapon. This would be the same as PvP weapons, with PvP prefixes and all unlocked upgrades available.
4) Choose armor. Same as the PvP character armor selection, with unlocked Runes available.
5) Set attributes points without having to worry about refund points.

All PvE weapons, upgrades, runes, and armor can be kept throughout this process, but they have to stay exactly as they are.

This would:
- allow me to play the characters that I have quit playing due to lack of need. I enjoy playing my PvE characters, but I have given up on the idea of UAS for all professions with one character.
- be an awesome way to slowly gain skill points for your PvE characters. I have almost gained a skill point on one of my PvP characters, when I noticed that, I almost cried.
- provoke more "fancy armor" purchasing, since you could actually flaunt your armor in the Arenas, Tombs, and GvG, providing yet another, money sink.

Did I miss any ideas?

Am I neglecting something?

Does this throw off balance?

Who would this ruin the playing experience for?

Who would use this?

Who else thinks this is a good idea?

emil knight · Aug 17, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

The system, as it is, makes PvE characters pretty useless for PvP.

Wha?

I'm sorry... I have to disagree with this. I don't have any PvP characters at all and I do just fine when I go to PvP. I have a majority of the skills for both my classes.

I'm not sure what you are doing with your other PvE characters but you need to look over thier builds and give them another go.

Chev of Hardass · Aug 17, 2005, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

I have a majority of the skills for both my classes.

I'm not sure what you are doing with your other PvE characters but you need to look over thier builds and give them another go.

OK, let's set this straight. I have three PvE characters. Four, if you count the one I just deleted so that I could keep a slot open for creating PvP characters.

1) Chev of Hardass (W/Mo) I have every skill except 4 Monk skills. I would probably have them, but skill points are keeping me back

2) Chevs Traphy Wench (N/Ele, N/Mo) I have the Blood Skills needed to do blood, lots of curses and some of the death skills. The Ele skills are center around Earth and the Monk skills are limited to; those that I had access to, and needed when I switched to N/Mo. Trying to collect skills for three characters is damn-near impossible. I have unlocked some Necro skills with faction so those are not available to this character, ever. I have unlocked almost all the monk skills, but I cannot use those, without grinding for more skill points and going out to find them, again. The ele skills are limited, but I did collect lots of them. This character is always out of skill points.

3) Colonel Chev (R/Mes) collected all but 4 Ranger skills and 17 mesmer skills and got deleted to make room for a Mesmer Primary. I did not like playing Ranger that much anyway, I think this will be a nice change. This character had 0 skill points at the time he was deleted.

4) Yati Dominachev (Mes/Ele) Level 6 still doing skill quests in the Ascalon area. This character will fill the gaps in the Mesmer and Elementalist side of skill unlocking and teach me the finer points of playing a mesmer. She has six skill points, and has earned 6 skill points. As soon as she gets to the elite areas, she will start spending skill points at a drastic rate.

Why all this info? I have accomplished a lot with my characters, but they sit and collect dust. Every one of these characters was made with a team build in mind, but team builds change. In fact, with the teams that I play with, team builds change between matches.

I have collected all these skills, experimented with a staggering number of skills and find I am a very flexible PvP player, but. For me to adapt to new team builds I need to have a flexible characer.

For example, I play warrior a lot. My guild loves my W/Mes, but I don't being that character out to get coppied much. I play W/N in the random arenas a lot. I play W/Ele for the famous KD/AS. I almost never play W/Mo in PvP. I find the W/Mo pretty useless in PvP, personally. So, Chev of Hardass sits and does nothing.

Right now, the only character flexible enough to participate in PvP is the open slot I keep for a PvP only character.

I learned my lesson with my first character, the necro. If you switch secondaries, be carefull about collecting skills for that class. That is one sure fire way to kil your collection of skill points.

If you are like me, and want to unlock everthing this game has to offer, you probably have three characters with 6 different professions. Once you transition into PvP those characters lay in dust. Waiting for a chance to group to go grind skill points every now and then.

I want to play my characters, but I see that if I were to grind out enough skill points for my warrior monk to play just the roles that I have mentioned, I would really need a lifetime, or hench that could replace a good team in the UW/Fissure.

If we could play our characters, with PvP flexibility in PvP, we could gain experiance and maybe take the grind out of gaining skill points to be used in PvE as well, or just get to play a character that we have guided for hours and hours.

I guess if you still don't believe that PvE characters are pretty useless, compared to the PvP only slot, well, I guess you need to reevaluate what level PvP you play at.

I have been thinking about this upgrade to the system a lot lately and I think it would be fun, make top shelf weapons unnecessary to stay up to the rest of the crowd, when playing PvP, and cause a potentally massive increase in the amount of gold spent on armor and runes, but this would only be for those wanting to flaunt their "uBeR" armor.

emil knight · Aug 17, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I guess if you still don't believe that PvE characters are pretty useless, compared to the PvP only slot, well, I guess you need to reevaluate what level PvP you play at.

Apart from the Ascalon Arena, I've used my R/Mo PvE toon at every other PvP area available. I've unlocked most of the skills available for both classes, and gathered as many elites as I have been able too (there is one that I would like that still eludes me, but I'll get it soon enough).

Sometimes my group wins, sometimes they don't. My abilities in these areas are no less than any other PvE OR PvP character and that's because I rely on MY ABILITIES. What skills I bring and when and how I use them.

I often switch out skills depending on who is in my group and what challenge we may be facing. I don't lock my self into one build. Since I still enjoy doing certain missions in PvE over again, or helping a fellow guildmates through a previous one, I can change my skill levels fairly easily.

If you are waiting for the "perfect team build" to come along so you can use these other characters, then yes, your guys may "collect dust". Of course, you could always go out and build the team you desire yourself so they will be utilized.

Don't allow your self to get into such rigid thinking. Be a bit more flexible each time you go into battle. If you think "I HAVE to bring this skill EVERY time, or we will lose" then it's possible someone has already thought of that and will counter it the moment you try to use it. Hell the next time they see you they'll probably WAIT on you to use that skill and demolish you for it. Don't just learn your own skills but learn to read your opponents by watching what skills they use and when.

Chev of Hardass · Aug 17, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

Don't allow your self to get into such rigid thinking.

WAIT, your telling me to stop thinging so rigidly? I want more flexibility in PvE characters to match my flexibility. You said your R/Mo was effective in PvP. I am sure my R/Mes was far more effective to the team than your R/Mo, but some might say that a R/Ele is more effective. My point is that to play a PvE character in all those situations you will have to amass a huge number of skill points.

Read my posts again, wait, for the first time. Then comment on the origional subject. I posted several questions at the end of my first post. Answer one of those, or more if you can.

I play Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Tombs (yes it's Tombs, not HoH) and Guild vs. Guild. I have only played a PvE character in GvG once. I have only played a PvE character in Tombs a handful of times. I play my PvE characters in Arenas when I don't care about winning, just a way to gain experiance other than playing a computer.

No, my PvE characters don't fit the current team builds I run into. I make PvP only characters, but sometimes, if the system was implemented as I have outlined, I could play a PvE character in PvP, and that would make me, and I think other people, happy.

emil knight · Aug 17, 2005, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

WAIT, your telling me to stop thinging so rigidly? I want more flexibility in PvE characters to match my flexibility. You said your R/Mo was effective in PvP. I am sure my R/Mes was far more effective to the team than your R/Mo, but some might say that a R/Ele is more effective. My point is that to play a PvE character in all those situations you will have to amass a huge number of skill points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I have collected all these skills, experimented with a staggering number of skills and find I am a very flexible PvP player, but. For me to adapt to new team builds I need to have a flexible characer.

THAT IS RIGID THINKING.

How can you say that your build was MORE effective then mine? You have no idea who was with me at any one time or what challenges we faced. You're asking ANet to bend over and give you a slot to stick your key in to magically unlock the secret to winning every match with your "perfect builds". Your builds obviously aren't as "perfect" as you've lead yourself to believe if you can't use them. Also, you forget, with a simple trip to UW or FoW (or even the Southern Shiverpeaks or Fire Island areas) you can recharge your skill refunds and change out your skills. You're basically asking for the "change on the fly" ablility that is only open to PvP toons.

So what you're basically saying is "The selection of PvP items and runes are far superior than anything a PvE guy can bring and PvE toons need to have unlimited skill refunds or they completely suck." Under that scenario, what skills you've unlocked obviously mean nothing. As a PvP guy, I should be able to beat any PvE guy with my inventory alone.

Now, had you suggested a PvE ONLY arena I would have stood behind you... I would find that an interesting idea. You coming here saying you need a huge amount of skill points or unlimited refunds to be any good with a PvE build is just ludicrous. If you've unlocked most of the skills for any one of your guys, then the only thing you might not have access too is the items and maybe a few runes you've unlocked in your travels with your other guys.

Seriously, go back and rethink your toons. If you really believe them to be that useless then delete them...

GW Monkey · Aug 17, 2005, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

For example, I play warrior a lot. My guild loves my W/Mes, but I don't being that character out to get coppied much. I play W/N in the random arenas a lot. I play W/Ele for the famous KD/AS. I almost never play W/Mo in PvP. I find the W/Mo pretty useless in PvP, personally. So, Chev of Hardass sits and does nothing.

So switch his secondary for PvP. What's the big deal? Carry Hardass to the desert and switch it. Start grabbing skills, since you're already familiar with a few different builds you don't need 32 banked skill points, only few for the target build. Go signet some elites. Now go PvP. Done? Did you have fun? Great! Now go back to a desert town and switch back, if you'd like. This takes about one second and you're done. Certainly a lot faster than regenerating a PvP-only toon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

If you collect every skill for two professions, grinding skill points for you specific builds for other secondary professions is painful, at best.

Now do a couple UW/FoW runs, or whip out experience scrolls and clean a zone if your side doesn't have favor. (Hint: Slayer's Insight + Mineral Springs = 2 skill points and an fresh elite for your new secondary.) If you find doing this is repetitive and boring, maybe delete the W too and just play PvP for awhile. You can always recreate a new PvE toon and get him up to speed a whole lot faster the next time around. Or leave him shelved. There might be a reason, afterall.

Like you, I'm fully unlocked but for a couple item upgrades. I like my main PvE monk for flexibility. I used him to unlock most of my account, simply because I started him back in the "monk starved days" of early UW/FoW. So the skill points just piled up. Now this Mo/* is extremely flexible, I can portal to a desert outpost, switch secondaries, and have nearly every single skill for every single secondary. (Yes that's a lot of work, tons of platinum, and a few hundred skill points... as you know.) Without a doubt the most flexible character is a fully unlocked individual one. Even more flexible than a PvP-only because I can carry multiple attribute-specific weaponry and armour.

If that seems like too much work, just get used to regenerating PvP-only characters. The more you do it the faster you become, like everything. After about 25 times I can do it in a minute or two. It's not that much of a hassle, and after a while you won't even care what your toon looks like, just click the appearance scrollers randomly, the armour colors randomly. If you're worried about your "uber" armour or your appearance in general then you might want to stick to PvE and stand in town spamming emotes.

(oooh!) I do wish you could carry multiple armour sets, more varied weapon loadout, and I would especially love it if you could add user-created templates so you make a new PvP guy in an instant once you did it once, but it's still not that bad.

I used to worry about playing something I messed up until I earned enough XP to reset the attributes; now I can regenerate a PvP in the time it takes someone to "afk bio"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I guess if you still don't believe that PvE characters are pretty useless, compared to the PvP only slot, well, I guess you need to reevaluate what level PvP you play at.
...
Read my posts again, wait, for the first time. Then comment on the origional subject. I posted several questions at the end of my first post. Answer one of those, or more if you can.

I hope I just explained an alternative that can get past that Mesmer Elite spell, Haze of Ego.

Still, for the most part it's a harmless suggestion. The only one I have an issue with is #5. We have enough non-competitive types, and you want them to be able to try once, see it didn't work, and go switch? No. No way. Use your assets and your enemies weaknesses. Flexibility is fine, but endless instant attribute refunds? That's just plain stupid.

Chev of Hardass · Aug 17, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Monkey,
I am astonished that you have skill points amassed in the hundreds. WOW. Call me ignorant, but I will call you unusual, and suspect that if you are competant monk, that is far eaiser than any other profession. A guild mate has that same situation, but he farms the UW with his 105 monk. We will not mention the ease of getting in a group as a monk, that still is the case today. Still, I ask, did you unlock all your skills with your monk? Or did you unlock all the skills with other characters and then build your monk for PvE/PvP based on the skills you felt you needed?

I think the only way to unlock all skills for that unseen build you are asked to run and get to play a PvE character in PvP arenas is to.
1) Build three characters unlock all the skills.
2) Delete these characters
3) Rebuild your characters with only your favorite builds in mind, spending only the skill points you need to spend.

Hmm, those characters will continue to build a collection of skill points as they play so those characters will be able to unlock any new skills over time.

I am glad to hear that you think this suggestion is pretty harmless anyway. I guess the refund point thing was really a shot in the dark, thinking of the PvP menu where you can play with attribute points untill you find the optimum setup for your build. Since exp is gained in PvP again, this should not be a problem, but I think that it would not be fatal to have unlimited refund points while prepping your character for PvP.

I guess you, GW Monkey, have the type of character that might be against this system. If you have unlocked all these skill on your one charaacter you would not need this at all, except for perhaps having access to all the weapons and armor that your PvP only characers have acess to.

I too, am fast as building PvP only characters, but it kills me inside to play a character for several hours and end up almost earning a skill point. I would like some of that experiance to go to my PvE characters and I think this would be one way to do that.

Emil,
No more. We see two very different worlds, and I think they will remain out of focus to each other.

Slade xTekno · Aug 17, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I think the only way to unlock all skills for that unseen build you are asked to run and get to play a PvE character in PvP arenas is to.
1) Build three characters unlock all the skills.
2) Delete these characters
3) Rebuild your characters with only your favorite builds in mind, spending only the skill points you need to spend.

I tried pulling this off, but I find myself unable to do so. I am a casual gamer, and playing through the storyline once, much less three times, to participate in PvP to its fullest extent is simply unappealing.

kitolz · Dec 29, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW Monkey

Flexibility is fine, but endless instant attribute refunds? That's just plain stupid.

Hehehe